General Stanley McChrystal: Service, Society, and Leadership
An in-depth interview with General McChrystal on the intersection of military service and societal duty
General Stanley McChrystal is one of the most well-respected military generals in history. He is a retired 4-star general who now has become a prominent public speaker and business leadership consultant. He is widely regarded for his exceptional leadership and innovative military strategies. McChrystal is best known for his command of the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), where he played a pivotal role in counterterrorism efforts, particularly during the Iraq War and the war in Afghanistan. His unconventional approach to warfare, which emphasized transparency, teamwork, and adaptability, reshaped how the U.S. military conducted operations in complex environments.
It was a great honor that General McChrystal took the time to sit down with me for an interview. Here it is:
We have not done a great job welcoming back service members when they come home. I'm curious what you think we can do better? What are people not understanding?
“It's a great question. I think, by comparison to the war in Vietnam, we actually do a much better job now than we did for that war, because there was such political opposition to the war and people tended to equate the soldier with the war that they disagreed with. I have not seen that with Afghanistan and Iraq veterans. So there hasn't been, (at least I've never experienced or heard much about) direct disrespect, right? Instead, I think we're seeing that most Americans have never served. The reality is most American parents never served either. It's not the World War Two era when so many people went and so everybody's uncle or father or mother served. And so the context, the understanding of what the veteran is experiencing, is more foreign to people, right? And so people mean well; they say, “thank you for your service.” They do all of the things that they believe are thoughtful, but we don't have a system where people come back and there's a clear understanding of the veteran experience. They may be wounded, they may not be wounded, but they come home, and their friends have all moved on with their lives. You know, they had buddies that they had in high school, and suddenly they come home and they think they're going to fall back on that group, but that group's now four or eight years older. They've got families, they've got jobs, etc. And so this veteran comes back, but they don't automatically fit like they think they will. In their minds, when they're in the service, they can't wait to go home, right? But it doesn’t always work out.”
On a more personal note, did you experience something similar when you returned?
“My experience is different because I was much older. I went to these wars in the spring of 2002. I went to Afghanistan first. When I came home, I was back for about a year, and then I went for five years. Right now, five years is a very long time. And so my challenge was not that I was immune to it because we'd been married for many years. When I went, my son had gone to college. My challenge was not that I was a young person trying to fit in. My challenge was that I'd spent five years away from my wife, and I'd spent five years away from American society, largely, and I'd spent more than that when I left the service. I'd spent most of the previous decade deployed. So for me, it was trying to figure out how I was going to fit into a society that had been moved along, right?”
Why are so few people joining the military now? If we look back one generation, two generations, there's a huge shift. I'm curious about what you think has changed over this period.
“Yeah, I think about several things. When I was young during the Vietnam War, people were drafted, so they may not have wanted to go, but a lot of people did go. Then after that, we went to a volunteer service. And the volunteer service was pretty popular. There was no trouble. There was trouble for a couple of periods, but most of the time, getting enough people to volunteer was not hard. We were not at war. We did some small things, Grenada, Panama, and whatnot, but not at war. And so this new professional volunteer army was pretty well thought of. It was viewed as a pretty good opportunity for people. 9/11 saw a burst in patriotism and a burst in the sense that not only do a lot of people want to serve. They wanted to have served. And what I mean is people wanted to be veterans because they thought it was going to be good for them. After all, veterans were popular.
Then we got away from the active parts of the war, so that patriotism weakened tremendously. And I think a couple of things happened. One, the idea that war was something that you needed to do to sort of prove yourself. I think the idea that it was a patriotic requirement weakened. I think the younger generation had a different view of America's military role in the world, I guess. And now I'm going to sound like an old guy, but a fair amount of the younger generation didn't want to work that hard, because it looked like it was going to be painful. And so you put all of those together, and then suddenly when not many people in your peer group are going in the military, it gets even harder to go in, because if a bunch of them are going in, hey, you know if they're going, I'm going to go. But if nobody's going in, it's hard to do, and so I think it feeds on itself, right?”
You mention a decline in patriotism. Are you very concerned about this, or do you feel that it's just something to live with?
“Yeah, first off, I want to be clear: I don't think that patriotism and military service are the same. I think you can be very patriotic and not want to serve, but I think the feeling of responsibility or desire to serve, which in many cases is military, is sort of an indicator. And I think we do have a problem. I think we have a problem in America right now where a lot of people feel that they are citizens of the world, and I get that to a point, but the reality is, I think a lot of people feel like military service is for chumps. You know? I think that that can reverse itself quickly if we get attacked, but you don't want to wait for that. So I think it's a real problem.”
Do you have an idea of how you would go about trying to fix it?
“Yeah, I know what I would do. I think the first is our national leadership - starting with the President, who needs to ask Americans to do things. We are very hesitant to ask Americans to do anything. We always tell Americans, you're getting screwed, you're paying too much tax, you're working too hard. You know, our political system panders to telling people that they deserve more than they've got. We need to do it, and that's because you're trying to be popular. I think our political leaders need to be people who ask us to do things that we might not otherwise do. Remember John F. Kennedy: “ask not what your country can do for you: ask what you can do for your country. I think that we have backed away from that because of political opportunism. I think a leader should stand up and say, I need you to serve your country. It may not be in military uniform. It may be in conservation, healthcare, or education, but it's something where you are contributing to society. It's not all about you, because nobody's asking them to do that. Nobody's asking any of us to do that right now. To be honest, I think the leadership of the country should be much more aggressive in asking us to serve and sacrifice for sure.”
For those young kids out there who are considering joining the military, what would be your message to them? What advice would you give them?
“I would advise them to do it. And it's not just because I was in the military, but I know very few people who regret having served. They may not love it at the moment. You know, a lot of the best things for us are not the things we treasure the experience of while we're doing them, but afterward, you look back and you say, you know it was good for me that gave me some discipline, that gave me some focus, that built some relationships, that let me see part of the world. And I think that the military uniquely does that.
Now, again, there are other ways to serve. There’s a range of things you could do in the military. You know, when we think of the military, we think of World War Two infantrymen. In reality, the infantry in the military are a small minority. There's a spectrum of opportunities, right?”
You’ve spent a great deal of time around soldiers in your career. What would you want the world to know about a soldier that they probably don't consider?
“Soldiers are very much people. You know, we look at people because they all wear uniforms and they can relax. And so you tend to think of them as automatons, all who believe that the same thing, you know, responds the same way and their courses are as different as every human being, right? They are also remarkably good at what they do, you know. They are remarkably good. At least that's my experience. And if you give them the opportunity and the challenge to be good at what they do, they are stunningly good at it. I raised that because I think that a lot of people don't have that appreciation, and it would be healthier for the service now, but also for people considering going in to understand just how good their peers will be if they do enter.”
What leadership advice do you have?
“Take a look at some historical leaders. You can go read about a leader right now and pick either a great football coach or a great corporate executive or a president or a military leader. Most leaders have an innate ability to empathize with the people they're dealing with. They have tremendous willingness to persevere, to be consistent. They do it day after day after day. Anybody can get in front of a group of people give a stirring speech, and people say “what a great leader!” No. Leadership is over time. The best leaders I've experienced were people that I just learned to deeply appreciate. They were the way they were, day in and day out - when it's hard, when it's easy, when it's sunny, when it's raining. That’s when you start to get a sense for what real leadership is.”